Ahmet Türk's Interview With Taraf Daily

Here is the full translation of the interview Ahmet Türk had with Nese Düzel of Taraf Daily.

Ahmet Türk: “THE OPERATIONS WILL NOT PREVENT THE (KURDISH) CONFERENCE FROM TAKING PLACE”

Why Ahmet Türk?

-There actually was a positive atmosphere. Arrangements for the Kurdish Conference that was, for the first time, going to bring the representative of the Kurds from all around Middle East, were being made, and it was thought/hoped this conference would bring a comprehensive solution to the Kurdish Question, and that it would be a first step towards disarmament of the PKK. Suddenly the arrest of the DTP officials came. 51 DTP officials were arrested. But the real striking development came after these arrests. One Special Forces police knocked out a 14 year-old kid, who was among a group of small kids that were protesting in a rural area, to the ground and started to hit his head with the butt of his weapon over and over again, and kicked him as much as he could. It was as if someone intentionally wanted to blow up the peace atmosphere. With the Co-chair of Democratic Society Party Ahmet Türk we talked about how he saw these events. We asked questions about the future of the Kurdish Conference that is supposed to be taking place in Hewlêr (Erbil) and hosted by Barzani, whether DTP was going to attend the conference or not, whether PKK was invited or not, how to avoid the violence that is being escalated by some ones, and whether there will be some reciprocal gestures to soften the current atmosphere to Ahmet Türk.

NEŞE DÜZEL: There is a big operation going on against the DTP officials. What do you think about timing of this operation?

AHMET TÜRK: We expected some different developments in Turkey after the victory of the DTP on the local elections. We thought, “Either the high percentage we received will not be tolerated and the atmosphere would get more intense, or people’s support to the DTP will be accepted and the logic for solving the Kurdish Question will develop”. The first anticipation came true, the fact that DTP doubled its vote and became first party in the Kurdish Area in the 29 March local elections was not tolerated and the operations started.

ND: Who are the ones that did not tolerate the election results?

AT: At the forefront there is the political power (AKP). But it is not an operation that the government developed by itself. Politics are warded/under custody in Turkey. When the subject is the Kurdish Questions, AKP and the ones who ward the politics in Turkey come to an agreement on continuity of the 80 years-old policy of irresolution that halts the solution of the problem through democratic and peaceful means. After all we know that AKP was not shut down because they accepted such an agreement.

ND: Are you saying that the operation against the DTP officials is just a result of the local elections?

AT: That is the first reason. The second reason is PKK’s statement after the elections. PKK stated this: “Kurdish people supported DTP in the elections. We value this support. To open the road for the peaceful solution we will silence (Ceasefire) the weapons until June 1^st”. They also hinted that if there was any positive development that they will extend the ceasefire. This is it. The ones are getting richer from this… the warlords got worried. Because they know that if the Kurdish Question is resolved by democratic means, Turkey’s EU process will accelerate and they will lose power. The ones opposing to the peaceful solution of the problem, stepped in. The third reason for the operation against DTP is …

ND: Yes, what is it?

AT: The possibility of peace in the Kurdish region. The Kurds live in four countries Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria in the Middle East. Kurdish politicians of all four parts are in search for reaching a common decision of what the demands of the Kurdish people are, and to start the peace period in this region. This also disturbed the state. To stop all of these peaceful developments it attacked the DTP.

ND: PKK ended its ceasefire because of this operation; do you think it is the right decision to end the ceasefire?

AT: PKK did not end the ceasefire. They made a statement on last Thursday saying, “ It is obvious that the state does not want solve the Kurdish Question. But we will honor our decision as we stated before until June 1^st”.

ND: Considering the operations will continue, do you think it is the right decision to end the ceasefire after June 1^st?

AT: Our hope is that the ceasefire will continue. Kurdish Question cannot be solved with weapons. It can be solved with democracy. We never wanted the weapons to reappear in the agenda. We know that weapons cause suffering and tears. But we need to be realistic. To make peace requires political will and determination. If there is not a political power that wants peace and believes in peace there cannot be a one-sided solution. The state needs to enter in the process of saying, “yes” to the demands for peace. Any person with a reasonable mind should not take any kind of role in resurgence of the time of the weapons. We are worried about this, which is why we are shouting, “lets sit down and solve this problem with mutual dialog”.

ND: Who should be sitting mutually to solve the problem?

AT: There are sides of this problem. If the government is the executive organ and is there with public’s will then we will base ourselves on this and inform the government of our demands. But there is no dialog between the government and us.

ND: Have you held any kind of meetings with the AKP government or the prime minister as DTP?

AT: We cannot see the government when we look for it. We have asked them to have talks but this did not come to fruition.

ND: The Kurdish Conference is supposed to take place soon in Hewlêr (Erbil). Are these operations going to prevent the Kurdish Conference from taking place?

AT: They will not. The important thing here is the determination of the Kurds to hold such a joint conference together. Even though the DTP officials are being arrested, we will continue with our struggle to improve the democratic process and determination to create the dialog atmosphere. Of course we will not back down against the oppression that is inflicted upon us, while doing this. They should not think: “We have arrested 50 DTP officials, and this is the end of the DTP”. This part will not end. We will raise our voice and democratic objections against these arrests by our actions and statements.

ND: It is alleged that the DTP officials that were arrested have links to the PKK. Do you know anything about these allegations?

AT: Until this very day, when a Kurd asks for his identity, culture, language he is declared as a PKK member. Kurdish people’s demand for its identity, culture and language was considered as treason, as ethno-nationalism, as a movement to divide the country. Actually the state is telling us this: “Either you will shut up, or I will see you as PKK members and treat you as PKK members as well”.

ND: If it is proven that the DTP officials that were arrested actually have links to the PKK, will you still criticize these arrests?

AT: This question is meaningless. These people have been in the democratic politics since the HEP, the DEP, and they have never taken up arms and gone to the mountains. They are being arrested because of their opinions, and because of voicing the societal realities. For instance I say: “PKK’s ceasefire until June 1^st is an important step for peace”. Because I said such a thing I could be sued tomorrow and I could be tried for being a member of the PKK.

ND: Why?

AT: Well, our arrested friends are not saying anything different from this. They also, like me, are making observations. And are trying to open/clear the road for democratic politics. Whether we like it or not PKK is a reality. After DTP was strengthened even more in the elections PKK stated: “ We should give a chance to the DTP as they have the support of the (Kurdish) people. We will give them this chance by silencing our weapons (ceasefire) until June 1^st”. This was a positive decision. This was a chance. But the state immediately did the opposite. They tried to stop this decision by the operations (against the DTP)…

ND: Once you stated, “ We have the same support base as the PKK”. Is it possible that there are some links between the DTP officials and the PKK other than this common support base?

AT: We need to understand the developments in the world well. Say, some steps are taken for peace and we as the DTP had talks with the government and the state. At the end of these talks, will the state not ask us “OK, so if I do these, will the PKK lay down the arms”? Yes, it will. So then, the PKK is a reality and has a role in all these. If you consider identification of this role as having link with the PKK you cannot get any results. You have to take into account whether the PKK will accept the policies and projects for the peace.

ND: An armed group, whatever this group is, is a criminal against the laws. This is so in the world as well. Do you, as a parliamentarian, accept the fact that every armed group is criminal?

AT: We need to clarify the term “terror”. We need to understand Al-Qaida or Hamas correctly. We need to understand the PKK, Mandela’s party, and old Palestinian Liberation Organization correctly.

ND: How should it be understood/interpreted?

AT: If a movement is receiving support from a people, and is acting to realize that people’s demands we need to put them in a different category. Because that movement is a terrorist movement according to some, but some people don’t look at it that way (but for some they are heroes). We need to see this reality. Hamas is also an armed group currently, but Prime Minister Erdogan goes, holds talks with them and asks them to play a role in the peace process. In the past, Mandela also served in the prison, he was sentenced as a terrorist, but when the conditions changed and there was an atmosphere for the dialog, nobody said “Mandela is a terrorist”. He received the (Nobel) peace prize. But did not his group also use weapons?

ND: You are being investigated because you said Abdullah Öcalan was similar to Mandela…

AT: I am saying this in terms of processes. Otherwise I don’t thin anyone is similar another one. And nobody needs to be similar to someone else. But the historic process functions like this. The conditions are set up, and the talks take place. We can give IRA as an example.

ND: Are you saying that in the end they will have to talk to Öcalan?

AT: Öcalan does not have such a demand. He does not say, “If you don’t talk to me, it won’t happen”. He says: “I believe in peace, and want peace. This problem cannot be solved with the weapons anymore. Talk to me so that I can contribute in the peace process”. And he points to the Kurds, to the NGOs and the DTP as the address to which they should be going to hold the peace talks.

ND: Was the DTP invited to the Kurdish Conference in Hewlêr (Erbil)?

AT: Of course… Since this idea was developed we have been holding talks. We said that: “All the Kurds should attend this conference. If one side does not attend, this conference will be incomplete”.

ND: Is the PKK included within this?

AT: Of course. Everybody should attend. In the end it is the PKK that has the weapons in their hands. It is the PKK that is being discussed. All of the policies that are developed and all of the events taking place are based on it. When you exclude it, what is the point of holding that conference then?

ND: Has the PKK been invited to this conference? Do you have any information related to this?

AT: I don’t know. This conference is still in the process of talks.

ND: If the PKK does not get invited, will the DTP attend the conference?

AT: We will take our stance based on its seriousness. We will look at how this conference will be structured and how much it will be based on the solutions to the problem. Why would we attend an ineffective/vain conference? It should be an effective conference where one could reach some conclusions.


NG: Will a conference without the PKK be ineffective?

AT: Of course, it would be lacking.

NG: What kind of conclusions are you expecting to reach from the Kurdish Conference that will aim to disarm the PKK?

AT: It is said: “We are holding the conference to disarm the PKK. That is what Talabani says also. And it draws criticism from the Kurdish people for not conveying the demands of the Kurdish people to the AKP government. Because you cannot hold a conference just to disarm a group. Then, they would say: “Did I go to the mountains to lay down my arms”. Lets speak openly/be honest. Naturally, our main demand also is to create a world without the arms. But if there is not a project that will grant/meet the demands of the Kurdish people for its identity, culture and right to receive education in Kurdish, and decentralization in government, this will be in vain from the beginning. The important issue here is that the demands of the Kurdish people are met. Even if it cannot be done in one day, the preparations could be made. There are many examples of this in the world. For instance, there is the case of South Africa. How was the problem resolved, who were the intermediaries, how was peace achieved?

ND: Which solution case are you taking as an example from the world?

AT: None of the problems seems exactly alike, but in the end everywhere in the world in order to achieve peace and solution, the preparations have been made, the sides have discussed the issue and a will for peace has been formed. The common thing everywhere is that, the governments have acted with the aim of “ I will save my people and my country from this chaos” to bring the peace in a determined fashion.

ND: Do you have a hope for peace?

AT: We have never lost our hope for peace and we never will. Without protecting this hope for peace, we cannot do politics anyway. We say: “Do not continue with the strategy of denial and annihilation. Peace, if not today, one day will certainly arrive. Kurdish people’s cultural and identity rights will definitely be granted. Within the territorial integrity of the Republic of Turkey an environment of equality will be created. Lets develop our democracy as soon as possible”. For the last operations indicate that there are some who are determined to prevent the democratic solution from taking place.

ND: What should be done to solve the Kurdish Question within a peaceful framework?

AT: We are very clear and open about this subject. The (identity) rights of the Kurdish people should be guaranteed and put in the constitution. A new constitution should be prepared and this constitution should be written in a manner that accepts the differences as richness. We also are citizens of the Republic of Turkey. The Kurdish citizens should be granted whatever rights the Turkish citizens have. Within the framework of the Democratic Autonomy Project, regional governments should be strengthened/supported and regions based on their needs should be able to make decisions about their economic, social and educational matter. The schools that teach in Kurdish should be opened. For instance they show TRT6 (Şeş) as a development.

ND: Is it not a development?

AT: But the Kurds cannot determine the programs of TRT6. I actually asked in England. There are three million Welsh people. They have to learn Welsh in Wales and it is obligatory. They told me that: “ We are so much assimilated that only 5% of our population could speak Welsh. But now it is 20%. And among the young generation it is 40%”. English government distributes 120 million pounds every year to private television channels to support the improvement of the Welsh culture. This is a recognition and protection of a right. TRT6 is, on the other hand, abuse of a right. These are what we want…

ND: If these conditions are prepared will the PKK lay down its arms?

AT: There is not a difference between what we say and what they say. The demands are almost the same. These are Kurdish people’s general demands. I have to abide by the demands of the Kurdish people. So does the PKK.

ND: Under what conditions/circumstances will the PKK lay down its arms in your opinion?

AT: The state has to be open and transparent. Once you bring them down from the mountains, are you going to imprison them or are you going to put them among the society and open the way of the democratic politics for them? These issues should be openly discussed.

ND: Are there differences in the points of view between Barzani and the DTP?

AT: We are politicians that live in separate countries. Every country’s conditions and demands are different. If I were in Iraq today, I would ask for federation. Because, the Kurds of Iraq were part of the Ottoman Empire. Without internalizing the situation they were brought together with the Arabs, and they never came together. The situation in Turkey is different. The Kurds and the Turks have a chance of living together. Because, they really have been living together for a thousand years. As a result, we are not asking for federation in Turkey. We defend the concept of a democratic autonomous government. We want to empower the regional administrations/governments.

ND: What will the DTP offer to enable the peace?

AT: This should be understood by now. The Kurds are not in search of secession from Turkey. The Kurds want to solve this problem on the basis of equal rights with respect to the territorial integrity of the Republic of Turkey. If it is believed that this is what the Kurds want, solving the problem is not that hard. Because this is where the problem arises. Since the foundation of the nation-state the Kurds are seen as the potential danger. Some people should realize that the Kurds do not want to divide this country and get rid of this idea and their fears based upon this.

ND: Do you think that it is possible to make some reciprocal gestures to soften the atmosphere until a permanent peace is achieved?

AT: There is need for this. Gestures should certainly be made to bring out the sincerity for peace and solution.

ND: Can the PKK order its militants out of border as a gesture?

AT: Of course… If they know that there is a serious effort for peace, and that they will not be trapped why not? First, an atmosphere of trust should be developed. These things were done in the past and during pull out 300-400 militants/guerillas of the PKK were killed. In addition to that in the past a peace group came. Following that other groups were also going to come but when the ones that came in were sentenced to 15-20 years it ended there.

ND: What should the Turkish and Kurdish politicians do in order to put the Kurds and the Turks into a peace atmosphere?

AT: The Turkish democrats have an important duty in order to stop the rising nationalist perceptions. Today, the Turkish intellectuals should support the efforts of the DTP to solve the Kurdish Question in Turkey within democracy and with respect to the territorial integrity of Turkey and they should spread this belief and trust to the people, the way Sartre and French intellectuals opposed to invasion of Algeria in France in the past.

ND: Don’t the Kurds want to secede and found their own country?

AT: Some might want this, but the politicians have to think about the societal realities, and understand how much harm ethno-nationalism causes to peoples in today’s world. We are against the concept of nation-state and are for the “democratic-state”. We do not have the right to make peoples kill each other by bringing nationalism to the forefront in a world where countries form unions, and EU is developed.

ND: Do you think that the nation-state is a very bloody process?

AT: Yes. In today’s World we don’t need to found nation-state. There is need for equal citizenship, and democratic state. But some people do not want change in this country. They want to keep the status quo. Because those some people will lose their ward on the politics when the Kurdish Question is resolved and Turkey is more democratic.